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23° Bisabuelo/ Great Grandfather de: Carlos Juan Felipe Antonio Vicente De La Cruz Urdaneta Alamo →Raymond III, Count of Toulouse and Prince of Gothia is your 23rd great grandfather.
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(Linea Materna)
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Raymond III, Count of Toulouse and Prince of Gothia is your 23rd great grandfather.of→ Carlos Juan Felipe Antonio Vicente De La Cruz Urdaneta Alamo→ Morella Álamo Borges
your mother → Belén Borges Ustáriz
her mother → Belén de Jesús Ustáriz Lecuna
her mother → Miguel María Ramón de Jesus Uztáriz y Monserrate
her father → María de Guía de Jesús de Monserrate é Ibarra
his mother → Teniente Coronel Manuel José de Monserrate y Urbina
her father → Antonieta Felicita Javiera Ignacia de Urbina y Hurtado de Mendoza
his mother → Isabel Manuela Josefa Hurtado de Mendoza y Rojas Manrique
her mother → Juana de Rojas Manrique de Mendoza
her mother → Constanza de Mendoza Mate de Luna
her mother → Mayor de Mendoza Manzanedo
her mother → Juan Fernández De Mendoza Y Manuel
her father → Sancha Manuel
his mother → Sancho Manuel de Villena Castañeda, señor del Infantado y Carrión de los Céspedes
her father → Manuel de Castilla, señor de Escalona
his father → Saint Ferdinand III, king of Castile and León
his father → Berenguela I la Grande, reina de Castilla
his mother → Eleanor of England, Queen consort of Castile
her mother → Eleanor d'Aquitaine, Queen Consort Of England
her mother → William X, Duke of Aquitaine
her father → Philippa de Toulouse, comtesse de Poitiers
his mother → Guillaume IV comte de Toulouse
her father → Pons II Guillaume, comte de Toulouse
his father → Guillaume III Taillefer, comte de Toulouse
his father → Raymond III, Count of Toulouse and Prince of Gothia
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Raymond III, Count of Toulouse and Prince of Gothia is your 22nd great grandmother's 2nd husband.
Raymond Toulouse, III, Count of Toulouse and Prince of Gothia
Gender: Male
Birth: estimated between 910 and 970
Death: 978
Immediate Family:
Husband of Adélaïde la Blanche d'Anjou, Reine consort d'Aquitaine
Father of Guillaume III Taillefer, comte de Toulouse
Added by: Jean-Jacques Chacun on February 8, 2007
Managed by: James Fred Patin, Jr. and 34 others
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Aboutedit | history
Adelaide's second marriage was to Raymond III, Count of Toulouse and Prince of Gothia,[2] in 975. He died in 978. She had by him at least one child:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adelaide-Blanche_of_Anjou
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See this site regarding lack of consensus on the general connections of the counts of Toulouse:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_III,_Count_of_Toulouse'''
Raymond III is the designation assigned to distinct or possibly-distinct Counts of Toulouse in the mid-to-late 10th century. Recent scholarship has overturned the traditional account of the counts during this period without consensus arising for a new reconstruction. IN OTHER WORDS - NO CONSENSUS ON HIS PARENTAGE
This consensus reconstruction was shown to be flawed by the discovery of a 992 charter of William III and his wife Emma which explicitly named William's mother as the still-living 'Adelaix'. While this document shows that William was not son of Raymond Pons and Garsenda, it does little to illuminate the true relationships, and several scholars have proposed alternative solutions. These are in agreement with regard to the identity of William's mother. She is identified with Adelaide of Anjou, who as widow of the deceased Raymond of Gothia, married to Louis V, King of France, divorcing him two years later and remarrying William III of Provence. Her husband, the 'Prince of Gothia', had previously gone unrecognized or had been dismissed as inaccurate, but given the historical association of this title with the County of Toulouse, the identification of William's mother with Adelaide of Anjou is now accepted. This means that William's father was a previously unrecognized Count Raymond of Toulouse, but his relationship to the previous documented count, Raymond Pons, remains a matter of debate, with several competing theories being proposed.
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El título Príncipe de Gothia (princeps Gothiæ) o Príncipe de los godos (princeps Gothorum) era un título de nobleza, a veces asumido por su poseedor como un signo de supremacía en la región de Gothia y otras veces otorgado por el soberano de Francia Occidental al noble principal en el sur del reino, en los siglos IX y X. A veces hereditario y otras no, el título se ha traducido en inglés como Duque (o Margrave) de Septimania (dux Septimaniæ) o Duque (o Margrave) de Gothia (Gothiæ marchio). A menudo se llevaba a cabo un "cargo" similar o el mismo con el título comes marcæ Hispanicæ: "Conde (o Margrave) de la Marcha Española". El título también fue un recurso de un cronista y, como se presenta en algunas crónicas, es posible que nunca se haya utilizado en una capacidad oficial.
El primer empleador del título de "duque de Septimania" fue Guillermo de Gellone, quien actuó como principal funcionario y señora de Carlomagno en la región. Fue sucedido por Berengario el Sabio, quien también usó el título ducal-margravial. A su vez, fue sucedido por Bernardo de Septimania, a quien se llama comes marcæ Hispanicæ en los Annales Bertiniani. Gobernó tanto el condado de Toulouse como el de Barcelona, al otro lado de los Pirineos. Toulouse fue la capital de Septimania, también llamada Gothia o más tarde Languedoc, mientras que Barcelona fue la capital de Cataluña. Tenían historias independientes después de la conquista árabe de Iberia, pero ambos eran visigodos en población. La Marca Hispanica correspondía a las tierras góticas del otro lado de los Pirineos al este de Navarra. Evidentemente, la marca se consideraba una unidad política compuesta por varios condados. En las guerras civiles en la región que siguieron a la caída y muerte de Bernard en 844, el título quedó en suspenso.
Alrededor de 858, Carlos el Calvo otorgó a Humfrid varios condados catalanes y el título de Gothiæ marchio, lo que significa la misma supremacía sobre la marcha hispana que Bernard había celebrado años antes. En 862, Humfrid fue depuesto y probablemente en esa época, Bernard Plantapilosa fue nombrado margrave de Gothia. En algún momento antes de 876, él también fue depuesto y reemplazado por Bernardo II de Poitou. Este Bernardo era conocido como "Bernardo de Gothia", pero su intento de usurpar la autoridad en Gothia fue recibido con un duro castigo por parte de su soberano y estaba fuera del poder en 877. A principios de la década de 880, Carlos el Gordo empleó a tres mariones para actuar virreyes en la mayor parte de su reino que no visitaba con regularidad. Bernard Plantapilos volvió al favor y volvió a gobernar en Gothia y probablemente también en Provenza y Cataluña, quizás toda Aquitania.
En 932, Rodolfo de Francia revivió el título y lo otorgó (princeps Gothiæ) a los hermanos Ermengol de Rouergue y Raymond Pons de Toulouse. El cambio de título de marchio a princeps fue indicativo del cambio en la estructura política y la creciente independencia de los grandes magnates del poder real en el siglo x. Los hermanos lograron transmitir los títulos princeps y marchio a sus descendientes, pero el título tuvo poco significado después de eso. Guillermo III de Toulouse, marchio prefatus in pago Tholosano ("prefecto margrave en el país de Toulousain"), también se convirtió en margrave de Provenza.
Príncipes de Gothia
Guillermo de Gellone (abdicó en 806)
Berengario el Sabio (806-837)
Bernardo de Septimania (837 - 844)
Humfrid (858 - 862)
Bernard Plantapilosa (863 - 876)
Bernardo de Gothia (876 - 877)
Bernard Plantapilosa (884 - 885)
Ermengol de Rouergue (932 - 937)
Raymond Pons de Toulouse (932 - 950)
Raymond II de Rouergue (937 - 965)
Raimundo de Toulouse (950 - 978)
Raymond III de Rouergue (965-1008)
William Taillefer (978 - 1037)
Raymond IV (1041 - 1105) Príncipe de Gothia comenzó a ser llamado "Marqués de Gothia", título que llevaba como líder de la Primera Cruzada. [1] Como conde de Toulouse, pertenecía a la nobleza de Francia, que tenía el mismo rango que el rey de los francos.
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https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_%28IV%29_de_Toulouse
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_IV_de_Toulouse
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_IV,_Count_of_Toulouse
Raymond IV or V? (Uncertain numerical designation, see below) Count of Toulouse Note: The William IV in Wikipedia was NOT the William married to Adelaide-Blanche!
Traditional reconstruction[edit] Until recently, Raymond III was the numerical designation assigned Raymond Pons, Count of Toulouse, who seems to have succeeded his father as count before 926, and who is last seen in 944, apparently being dead by 969. In that year his widow Garsenda appears, acting alone. It was thought that she then acted as guardian for Raymond's successor and (supposed) son, William III, Count of Toulouse, who appears along with his wife Emma in the early 11th century. This reconstruction was not without problems. Not only was the chronology of this single generation long, but it is at odds with a surviving contemporary source, the Códice de Roda. The surviving manuscript of this collection of genealogies is of a later date, but is thought to derive from a 10th-century original. In its account of the Counts of Toulouse, it shows Garsenda, daughter of García II Sánchez of Gascony, to have married (Raymond) Pons, having by him one son, Raymond, who in turn is given children Hugh and Raymond. William (III) is not mentioned. Likewise, the will of Garsenda fails to name William. Reevaluation[edit]
This consensus reconstruction was shown to be flawed by the discovery of a 992 charter of William III and his wife Emma which explicitly named William's mother as the still-living 'Adelaix'. While this document shows that William was not son of Raymond Pons and Garsenda, it does little to illuminate the true relationships, and several scholars have proposed alternative solutions. These are in agreement with regard to the identity of William's mother. She is identified with Adelaide of Anjou, who as widow of the deceased Raymond of Gothia, married to Louis V, King of France, divorcing him two years later and remarrying William III of Provence. Her husband, the 'Prince of Gothia', had previously gone unrecognized or had been dismissed as inaccurate, but given the historical association of this title with the County of Toulouse, the identification of William's mother with Adelaide of Anjou is now accepted. This means that William's father was a previously unrecognized Count Raymond of Toulouse, but his relationship to the previous documented count, Raymond Pons, remains a matter of debate, with several competing theories being proposed.
Reconstruction 1[edit] Thierry Stasser identified Adelaide's husband with the last-named family member appearing in the Roda pedigree, the brother of Hugh, both sons of an earlier Raymond and grandsons of Raymond Pons and Garsenda. This Stasser harmonized with the will of Garsenda, in which she names her nepotes (grandsons or nephews) Hugh and Raymond, children of Guidinilda. He would thus introduce two generations, both named Raymond, between Raymond Pons and William III. The first would be the husband of Guidinilda and the father of Hugh and Raymond, with the latter in turn being the husband of Adelaide and father of William III. Given that Garsenda referred to Hugh and Raymond only by the names of their mother, it may be that the elder of the new Raymonds had likewise died by 969. The addition of as many as three additional counts (Raymond, Hugh and Raymond) would displace the numbering of all subsequent counts named Raymond.
Stasser reconstruction of 10th century Toulouse counts Raymond Pons Count of Toulouse Garsenda
Raymond (III) Count of Toulouse
Guidinildis
Hugh (?) Count of Toulouse
Raymond (IV) Count of Toulouse
Adelaide of Anjou
William III Count of Toulouse
Reconstruction 2[edit] Martin de Framond suggested two alternatives, the first of which introduced just one intervening generation. He suggests that Raymond Pons and Garsenda were succeeded by a son Raymond, who as in the Codice de Roda had sons Hugh and Raymond, but that as widower of Guidinilda he subsequently married Adelaide, having younger son but eventual heir William. The addition of just a single additional count Raymond in this reconstruction has allowed the traditional numbering to be massaged - some subsequent compilers have used the byname to distinguish Raymond Pons, and then referred to the subsequent novel count as Raymond III, without changing the traditional numbering of subsequent counts of that name.
First Framond reconstruction of 10th century Toulouse counts
Raymond Pons
Count of Toulouse Garsenda
Guidinildis
Raymond (III) Count of Toulouse
Adelaide of Anjou
Raymond
Hugh
William III Count of Toulouse
Reconstruction 3[edit] In his second reconstruction, Martin de Framond placed more weight on the will of Garsenda, which could be read as implying that she left no children. He suggests that the nepotes Hugh and Raymond were children of Raymond II, Count of Rouergue, the nephew of Raymond Pons and his heir-male were he to die without sons. He suggests that Raymond of Rouergue may have succeeded his uncle as Count of Toulouse, and that the husband of Adelaide was son of this count, a like-named half-brother to Raymond III of Rouergue. [hide]Second Framond reconstruction of 10th century Toulouse counts
Raymond Pons Count of Toulouse
Garsenda
Ermengol Count of Rouergue
Bertha of Tuscany
Raymond II/(III) Count of Rouergue and Toulouse
Guidinildis
Raymond III Count of Rouergue
Adelaide of Anjou
Raymond (IV) Count of Toulouse
Hugh
Given the lack of consensus over possible reconstructions, the name Raymond III, originally referring to Raymond Pons, is now ambiguous. It can still refer to Raymond Pons, to a hypothesized son who married successively Guidinilda and Adelaide of Anjou, to a hypothesized son who was husband of Guidinilda and father-in-law of Adelaide, or to Raymond II, Count of Rouergue. No consensus has arisen regarding these alternative reconstructions, nor on how previous hypotheses identifying possible siblings of William III fit into these new rearranged pedigrees.
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Adélaïde la Blanche d'Anjou, R...
wife
Guillaume III Taillefer, comte d...
son
Ermengarde de Toulouse
stepdaughter
Pons, comte de Gévaudan
stepson
Ermengarde / Humberge de Limoges...
stepdaughter
Almodis de Limoges de Gévaudan
stepdaughter
Eimilde de Gévaudan
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Constance of Arles, queen consor...
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Lucia de Provence, comtesse cons...
stepdaughter
Guillaume III le Pieux, comte de...
stepson
Ermengarde of Arles
stepdaughter
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Agregado por: Ing. Carlos Juan Felipe Urdaneta Alamo, MD.IG.
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